View Full Version : NSW: Joey's loss means a three-way fight
Joey's loss means a three-way fight
By Dean Ritchie
March 29, 2006
DISAPPOINTED New South Wales coach Graham Murray last night described the loss of Andrew Johns from State of Origin football as a "real shame".
A three-way battle will now be staged over the next two months to secure one of rugby league's most prized possessions - the Blues halfback spot.
Johns's shock retirement from State of Origin football yesterday has opened up a position most thought was already locked in.
Brett Kimmorley, of the Sharks, Penrith's Craig Gower and Manly's Matt Orford are the three players lining up to take Johns's jumper for Origin I in Sydney on May 24.
Gower is a firm favourite.
"Joey rang and told me and I was originally shocked," Murray said late last night.
"It is a real shame that I won't be able to coach him in Origin football.
"It was something I was looking forward to.
"He is arguably the best player in the world. He would certainly have been there."
Johns will no doubt leave a huge gap at Origin level. Queensland had Wally Lewis, NSW had Andrew Johns.
The halfback's performances in last year's series were truly stunning.
Murray said he admired Johns's decision to leave Origin football and concentrate on winning a premiership with Newcastle.
"What he's done is very unselfish," Murray said.
"He has played at Newcastle all his life and now feels he wants to give something back. It is a great gesture."
Johns did not want to enter into a debate about who should be his replacement in the Blues side, but he did lean toward Gower.
"That's not really for me to say. It's up to the selectors and Graham Murray," Johns said.
"There are some really good halfbacks to choose from but from what I have seen so far, Craig Gower is someone who is in really good form.
"But Origin is still a fair way off yet."
Gower has been in superb form for Penrith this season after a bumpy off-season where he spoke of quitting the Panthers.
He and Kimmorley are favourites ahead of Orford.
Gower is the incumbent Test halfback, having been called into the Australian side during the Tri-Nations tour in England last year for sacked Scott Prince.
A return by Kimmorley would be amazing given he was sacked from the NSW side after a thrilling State of Origin opener last year.
The Sharks halfback threw the ill-fated intercept pass to Matt Bowen which gave Queensland a dramatic golden point win in the Suncorp Stadium match.
Murray has a history with Kimmorley, having coached him at Super League club, the Hunter Mariners.
Orford has had a solid start to his season with new club Manly.
The Daily Telegraph
Craig Gower has to firm as favourite to fill the halfback position that is now vacated by Andrew Johns given his start to the season.
Whilst this is sad news for rugby league fans, it is in some way welcomed news to the QLD Maroons who will never forget the 2005 series where Johns came back to Origin in game two and ripped out our hearts to steal the series after we led 1-0.
Yep, Gower for mine too. Never ever let Kimmorley anywhere near the sky blue ever again. Orford is also so far from being a SOO halfback. I would rather they put Hornby or even Withers before him.
Queenslander
29-03-06, 09:32 AM
Yep, Gower for mine too. Never ever let Kimmorley anywhere near the sky blue ever again. Orford is also so far from being a SOO halfback. I would rather they put Hornby or even Withers before him.
Yeah i agree, based on current form Gower is the only man for the job. Although as a Queenslander i would say bring back Kimmorley :laugh:
Steelers
29-03-06, 09:33 AM
Is there also a battle for the no.6, or is that going to automatically being given to Barrett :)
I think Barrett has the spot at the moment. He has been playing well, controlled the game well on the weekend, organised beautifully giving his danger men plenty of time and opportunities.
Anasta has been average with the Roosters, cant see Hill getting it - cant see any others with the big game experience needed.
One thing in Barrett's favour is his ability to step up in big games. Has done so in the past when selected. Is also versatile enough to be able to play 7 or 13 if injuries make it necessary.
Is there also a battle for the no.6, or is that going to automatically being given to Barrett :)
Don't be silly Ricky wants Braith because he is great (at what i don't know) Stuart will make Barrett half back. And as he's off contract this year don't be suprised if Ricky poaches him during Origin camp for the Roosters.
As they need another half five eight to add to the 3 of each current.
It is the same old story I buy em regardless so you can't have em
Stuart is a mouth peice not a coach, check out his coaching record
Inherited the Roosters after Murray took them to the previous years Grand Final
Won a reserve grade grand final with the Dogs
Won the GF on the back of Murrays work from the previous years
Won a State of Origin series when NSW were raging red hot favourites
Lost 2 other grand finals
Missed the playoffs last year after buying Amos Roberts, Brett Firman Joel Monaghan etc.
Yet the only significant player loss was Brad Fittler Huge but with their cattle not irreplaceable and to miss the top 8 inexcuseable
Ricky said it was a rebuilding year. What a crock. Brad Fittler was good but they are far from a one man side, so how did he manage to stuff them up again last year?
Ricky is good at getting plum positions and to coach the Aussie side whilst prestigous is not difficult.
Stuart has had Morely for 4 years and still can't teach him to tackle low
Yeah he's a teriffic coach at least one of the cheer leaders thought so!!!!!!!!!
Don't be silly Ricky wants Braith because he is great (at what i don't know) Stuart will make Barrett half back. And as he's off contract this year don't be suprised if Ricky poaches him during Origin camp for the Roosters.
As they need another half five eight to add to the 3 of each current.
It is the same old story I buy em regardless so you can't have em
Stuart is a mouth peice not a coach, check out his coaching record
Inherited the Roosters after Murray took them to the previous years Grand Final
Won a reserve grade grand final with the Dogs
Won the GF on the back of Murrays work from the previous years
Won a State of Origin series when NSW were raging red hot favourites
Lost 2 other grand finals
Missed the playoffs last year after buying Amos Roberts, Brett Firman Joel Monaghan etc.
Yet the only significant player loss was Brad Fittler Huge but with their cattle not irreplaceable and to miss the top 8 inexcuseable
Ricky said it was a rebuilding year. What a crock. Brad Fittler was good but they are far from a one man side, so how did he manage to stuff them up again last year?
Ricky is good at getting plum positions and to coach the Aussie side whilst prestigous is not difficult.
Stuart has had Morely for 4 years and still can't teach him to tackle low
Yeah he's a teriffic coach at least one of the cheer leaders thought so!!!!!!!!!
Need to lay off the good stuff. Barrett will either be in the red and white of the Dragons or the red and white of Wigan.
Need to lay off the good stuff. Barrett will either be in the red and white of the Dragons or the red and white of Wigan.
For those who care that was the forums 40,000 post
Don't be silly Ricky wants Braith because he is great (at what i don't know) Stuart will make Barrett half back. And as he's off contract this year don't be suprised if Ricky poaches him during Origin camp for the Roosters.
For NSW?
The Australian coach will not be calling the shots for NSW, that will be Graham Murray ;) Trent Barrett in his own right is an option at halfback for NSW given his success in the role for NSW though I think you will see Barrett in the 6 partnering Gower at halfback - for game one at least.
I am not sure he (Stuart) will be in NSW camp either to 'poach' Trent Barrett and why would he? To 'buy em so (they) can't have em' - give me a break.He just invested alot of money on Braith Anasta as his five-eight and has earmarked Jamie Soward as a long term halfback for the club.
Some ill-feelings toward the Australian coach might have clouded the post :laugh: Ricky Stuart is a very good coach with a record the envy of most coaches in the NRL despite being in the 'game' for a short period. You can mouth off that he is 'getting plum positions' all you like though he has got the job done for Sydney (3 GF's in a row, winning one in 2002) and NSW (2005 S.O.O. Series win). Ricky will also get the job done for Australia.
Some point out that Stuart lost two grand-finals in a row (some questionable coaching decisions with the bench played a part) and the players won one in 2002 - this is the opinion from those who hold something against the man. As some might, they (critics) are 'playing the man, not the ball' and to be honest I find it hillarious and dismiss the suggestion he is not a good coach. Look at his career winning % thus far, only early, but he is still producing.
A coach can only coach the cattle in front of him - I don't believe you can hold that against him nor put his success down to 'getting plum positions'.
I hope you are right but never count your chickens when the roosters are involved
Well done on being the 40,000th post 3 cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hope you are right but never count your chickens when the roosters are involved
Well done on being the 40,000th post 3 cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1. True..
2. Thanks, we hope your hear for the next 40,000 - love your work thus far MOPL ;)
Super Cronk
29-03-06, 10:44 AM
Orford wont get it....I wouldnt mind kimmorley at half but Gower will prolly get it.
Dear Mrs Stuart
As i said anyone can coach the Aussie team, the players could do it with out a coach, the coaches role is man management ( refer to wayne bennett)
The test coach has no influence of the State of Origin, perhaps you missed the comments regarding Lockyer's move to fullback, Minichello to the wing etc fuelled by certain people and not denied or defended by the National coach
Rooster spending money on long termers now there's a myth
Lets see they have Craig Wing, Brett Finch, Jamie Soward, Braith Anasta, Amos Roberts and Chris Flannery all who have and can play in the halves. Lets not forget Finch did play State of Origin at half and was touted as the next Stuart
They also had Brett Firman who was released to The Cowboys he had a 3 year deal
Ricky getting the job done for Sydney, i suppose you gloss over losing premierships when you are favourites and the only win was on the back of Graham Murrays success from the previous years.
Sorry they are facts and stats things coaches and players are judged by.
Under the guidance of Ricky the Roosters have lost 2 grand Finals and missed the top 8 They are facts By pointing out these facts does not imply hate for Stuart or a Stuart basher They are facts. Take the glory accept the failures.
It was you who pointed out coaching errors regarding the bench
Playing the man not the ball, I have never seen a ball coach a side so whilst we have males coaching, those males will be judged on their record.
With Phil Goulds involvement when Stuart took over from Murray i think it is fair to say both Gould and Stuart coached that Premiership winning side. I remind you to go through the league acrchives and commemnts made by both parties as to who was guiding the side. Again a fact
As for his % wins if you had his cattle and could not achieve more wins than loses you shouldn't be coaching.
Good coaches nuture and build sides and succeed (John Lang, Michael Hagan, Jack Gibson, Wayne Bennett, Graham Murray, Warren Ryan, John Monie) often by starting
from scratch
Stuart has walked into the Roosters on the back of a reserve grade Grand Final win with the Dogs, he then
walked into a Premiership with the help of Phil Gould on the back of Murray who was sacked because the roosters lost, he then
Walked into State of Origin on the back of 2 Grand Final loses and a failure to make the top 8. he then
Walked into the Aussie job on the back of a State of Origin win when they were red hot favourites driven by Joey Johns who was the mastermind, tactioner and playmaker
These are the facts and please don't use the line a Stuart basher i am describing the facts
This is not a coach who has earned his appointments on his ability and record for you are measured on success not almosts, could haves or if onlys
Dear Mrs Stuart
As i said anyone can coach the Aussie team, the players could do it with out a coach, the coaches role is man management ( refer to wayne bennett)
The test coach has no influence of the State of Origin, perhaps you missed the comments regarding Lockyer's move to fullback, Minichello to the wing etc fuelled by certain people and not denied or defended by the National coach
Rooster spending money on long termers now there's a myth
Lets see they have Craig Wing, Brett Finch, Jamie Soward, Braith Anasta, Amos Roberts and Chris Flannery all who have and can play in the halves. Lets not forget Finch did play State of Origin at half and was touted as the next Stuart
They also had Brett Firman who was released to The Cowboys he had a 3 year deal
Ricky getting the job done for Sydney, i suppose you gloss over losing premierships when you are favourites and the only win was on the back of Graham Murrays success from the previous years.
Sorry they are facts and stats things coaches and players are judged by.
Under the guidance of Ricky the Roosters have lost 2 grand Finals and missed the top 8 They are facts By pointing out these facts does not imply hate for Stuart or a Stuart basher They are facts. Take the glory accept the failures.
It was you who pointed out coaching errors regarding the bench
Playing the man not the ball, I have never seen a ball coach a side so whilst we have males coaching, those males will be judged on their record.
With Phil Goulds involvement when Stuart took over from Murray i think it is fair to say both Gould and Stuart coached that Premiership winning side. I remind you to go through the league acrchives and commemnts made by both parties as to who was guiding the side. Again a fact
As for his % wins if you had his cattle and could not achieve more wins than loses you shouldn't be coaching.
Good coaches nuture and build sides and succeed (John Lang, Michael Hagan, Jack Gibson, Wayne Bennett, Graham Murray, Warren Ryan, John Monie) often by starting
from scratch
Stuart has walked into the Roosters on the back of a reserve grade Grand Final win with the Dogs, he then
walked into a Premiership with the help of Phil Gould on the back of Murray who was sacked because the roosters lost, he then
Walked into State of Origin on the back of 2 Grand Final loses and a failure to make the top 8. he then
Walked into the Aussie job on the back of a State of Origin win when they were red hot favourites driven by Joey Johns who was the mastermind, tactioner and playmaker
These are the facts and please don't use the line a Stuart basher i am describing the facts
This is not a coach who has earned his appointments on his ability and record for you are measured on success not almosts, could haves or if onlys
:lol!: We will agree to disagree.
FACT: Ricky Stuart's record at all levels is excellent
FACT: Ricky Stuart is a very good (potentially great) rugby league coach
FACT: Ricky Stuart has won a Grand Final in his first season as coach
FACT: Ricky Stuart has won a State Of Origin series in his first attempt coming back from 1-0 down defying the odds (tell us what the record is for a Origin team coming back from 1-0 down is again?)
Ricky Stuart has an enviable record and his career is only just beginning. There are plenty of anti-Stuart fans out there - I am not going to write an essay defending the man, his record speaks for itself and stacks up against most at this stage of his career.
Good post though MOPL - hope there is more to come re: other topics ;)
BTW - no need for the MRS STUART retort either, dampened what was a good post. If you can put that time and effort into a post, no need to go there. Each to their own.
:lol!: We will agree to disagree.
FACT: Ricky Stuart's record at all levels is excellent
FACT: Ricky Stuart is a very good (potentially great) rugby league coach
FACT: Ricky Stuart has won a Grand Final in his first season as coach
FACT: Ricky Stuart has won a State Of Origin series in his first attempt coming back from 1-0 down defying the odds (tell us what the record is for a Origin team coming back from 1-0 down is again?)
Ricky Stuart has an enviable record and his career is only just beginning. There are plenty of anti-Stuart fans out there - I am not going to write an essay defending the man, his record speaks for itself and stacks up against most at this stage of his career.
Good post though MOPL - hope there is more to come re: other topics ;)
BTW - no need for the MRS STUART retort either, dampened what was a good post. If you can put that time and effort into a post, no need to go there. Each to their own.
I meet a lot of potentials not very many succeed
Not very many have the leg up Stuart has received
Joey Johns is the reason for State of Origin success
Stuart has an excellent coaching record at all levels is great if you accept failures, just getting there is not enough again especially when your are red hot favourites
You have to lose one to win one does not relate to Stuart you have to be given one to lose 2 and then miss the 8
Regarding your not writing of an essay on Stuart and his successes it would be easy to read as it would consist of 7 lines
In year 1 i was given one Grand final
In year 2 I coached a losing side a Grand Final
In year 3 I lcoached a losing side in another Grand Final
In year 4 I coached a side that failed to make the top 8
Also in year 4 I was the coach who lost the first game in the State of Origin Series I beggeed Joey to play he did and he single handedly won the series (that is a fact ask Carty as the players and media agree)
Sorry can't see much success there see alot of bridesmaid stuff, and a lot of we were supposed, should have but couldn't get the job done stuff
Great to be involved in the banter regarding all topics keep em coming
MOPL
Ricky Stuart's record
1 Premiership (2002)
3 Grand Final Appearances (2002, 03, 04)
1 State of Origin Series win (2005 2-1 coming back from 1-0 down)
1 Country Origin appearance (2004 - won)
109 First Grade games - 72 wins - 36 lost - 1 draw - 66.05 win %
As at: 29/03/06
I would like to know what members think here - would you like your coach to have a record looking like the above?
Just one last thing, you wrote, 'good coaches nurture and build and succeed' naming Michael Hagan and Wayne Bennett to the list.
Now, Michael Hagan won in his first season (2001) - yet he is labelled a good coach who 'nurtures, builds to success etc etc.' despite picking up right from where Warren Ryan left off? Why? The Wok' had no impact there?
Wayne Bennett is with out peer in the modern game though he too inherited a a Brisbane side in 1988 boasting; Colin Scott, Joe Kilroy,Chris Johns, Gene Miles, Michael Han****, Wally Lewis, Allan Langer, Terry Matterson, Greg Conescu, Greg Dowling...Bennett did not win a competition until his 6th season (one with Canberra in 87') despite having all the talent in the world with Brisbane. Sure, his success has been well documented, though Stuart is already ahead of him at the same stage of his career and you could say with lesser talent than Bennett had on hand in those early years.
Yes, yes - Stuart has coached two sides that lost Grand Finals despite being the favourites for the title. It happens, favourites don't always win Grand Finals. See the 69' Grand Final, see the 01' Grand Final etc. etc.
We are not going to agree here, great stuff. More than welcomed on this forum ;)
I would like to see other members have an input on the career of Ricky as well.
Now, Michael Hagan won in his first season (2001) - yet he is labelled a good coach who 'nurtures, builds to success etc etc.' despite picking up right from where Warren Ryan left off? Why? The Wok' had no impact there?.
What is the record of the Knights minus Andrew Johns as well? How did Hagan go vs a Ricky Stuart coached NSW? I would wager Stuart has won more games than a Fittler-less Roosters than a Johns-less Knights.
The NSW Blues did not win soley on the back of Andrew Johns. Sure, he was M.O.M. in game two but the team and the coaching simply out played QLD who had no answer for the rampant Blues. Labelling the series victory as 'only because of Johns' is a smack in the face to all who played and coached for NSW that series.
To be realistic why not run a pole on s Ricky Stuart a suceessful coach
The stats you have put up are biased loading your question as they don't reflect who were the favourites for the title that year, the quality of cattle
Would you like your coahes record to look like this, you will have a majority of YES, because you aren't comparing it to anything.
Put the identical record up side by side and swap the loses with wins and then you will a true comparison. Reality vs Potential
Put his record up against all others if you want to compare apples for apples
I think your intentions are right but your question is loaded as you have nothing to compare to
What do you think?
Could be a good discussion to who is the best and why based on a questionaire results
To be realistic why not run a pole on s Ricky Stuart a suceessful coach
The stats you have put up are biased loading your question as they don't reflect who were the favourites for the title that year, the quality of cattle
Would you like your coahes record to look like this, you will have a majority of YES, because you aren't comparing it to anything.
Put the identical record up side by side and swap the loses with wins and then you will a true comparison. Reality vs Potential
Put his record up against all others if you want to compare apples for apples
I think your intentions are right but your question is loaded as you have nothing to compare to
What do you think?
Could be a good discussion to who is the best and why based on a questionaire results
Mate, do what you need to - I am all for it. This forum is not 'loaded' with regulars do whichever way it goes we are not going to get a result that either one of us will argue is 'proof' as such.
I won't have the time to put up ALL records, though if you do, by all means go ahead MOPL.
In ending, I am a big fan of Ricky Stuart the former player and the coach. There are many of us out there, there are many who are not that way inclined.
Appreciated the quality of debate MOPL ;)
What is the record of the Knights minus Andrew Johns as well? How did Hagan go vs a Ricky Stuart coached NSW? I would wager Stuart has won more games than a Fittler-less Roosters than a Johns-less Knights.
The NSW Blues did not win soley on the back of Andrew Johns. Sure, he was M.O.M. in game two but the team and the coaching simply out played QLD who had no answer for the rampant Blues. Labelling the series victory as 'only because of Johns' is a smack in the face to all who played and coached for NSW that series.
I did not write the newspaper articles after the games i just read them. All the "experts" said and it and wrote it, check your records
Joey Johns was the man who masterminded and executed the downfall of the Maroons. As much as I hate to say it Phil Gould was one of the bigger applaudits of John's role
I did not write the newspaper articles after the games i just read them. All the "experts" said and it and wrote it, check your records
Joey Johns was the man who masterminded and executed the downfall of the Maroons. As much as I hate to say it Phil Gould was one of the bigger applaudits of John's role
The 'experts' might write it, we as fans have a choice in making our own opinion. A certain 'expert' (Paul Kent) in the media chose to defend the Danny Williams incident in 2004 - did most? A certain media 'expert' (Phil Gould) at one time called for the NRL to increase the cap due to the cost of living in the Eastern Suburbs...the 'experts' have an opinion, as do we as fans.
I take your point and Johns was instrumental though IMO he was the only man who 'masterminded and executed' the downfall of the Maroons. Again, this is selling short all of the NSW coaching staff and the players who busted their ass for NSW.
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